tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8569664541236921445.post5894603729063359521..comments2015-03-11T09:11:10.131-07:00Comments on Open Letter to Followers of the New Kadampa Tradition : gavinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11958960206287953377noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8569664541236921445.post-18312418656759244972015-03-11T09:11:10.131-07:002015-03-11T09:11:10.131-07:00@ DS'truth' - only briefly. I wished for m...@ DS'truth' - only briefly. I wished for more reasonable arguments and an opening to really understand the facts and truth.<br /><br />1. To allow anyone who wishes to practice Dorje Shugden the freedom to do so<br /><br />The freedom is there, or how can you explain that you can practice it and that Shugden monks in India have monasteries, land and material goods and can practice it too?<br /><br />2. To stop completely the discrimination against Shugden practitioners<br /><br />If there is discrimination, is the Dalai Lama a kind of god who can stop it? Can Obama (who has more power, an army, a legal system, police etc.) can stop discrimination? <br /><br />Is warning about the demerits of a harmful practice discrimination?<br /><br />3. To allow all Shugden monks and nuns who have been expelled to return to their monasteries and nunneries, and to receive the same material and spiritual rights as non-Shugden practitioners<br /><br />How can the Dalai Lama revert a democratic majority decision the monks in the monasteries made? Is he a dictator who can act as he likes? Did you know that they got a fair share of all the property and possessions after the decision was made to separate? <br /><br />If two parties separate because they cannot reasonable deal with each other, isn't that their right? Is it discrimination to make a divorce? And what about the rights of the Dalai Lama and the other monks, do they not have also rights?<br /><br />4. To write to Tibetan communities throughout the world telling them that they should apply practically the above three points.<br /><br />So, the Dalai Lama should act like a dictator and ignore the majority vote in the monasteries and the trouble Shugden practice creates because NKT wishes so?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13986558137819248654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8569664541236921445.post-34262248338795987072015-03-11T09:02:35.821-07:002015-03-11T09:02:35.821-07:00This part of my answer didn’t fit in the former co...This part of my answer didn’t fit in the former comment. So I add it here:<br /><br />You seem also not to have studied the Dalai Lama’s teachings (he never would say or said what you claim he said). Instead what you do is, you put the words of Kelsang Gyatso in the mouth of the Dalai Lama. Correct is the following statement "Geshe Kelsang Gyatso has said that if you see any faults in your Guru they are actually faults in your own mind so it could be argued he isn't practicing his own teachings with his actions towards the Dalai Lama." <br />Therefore, since this is what KG (but not the DL) really propounds to his NKT followers, the argument falls back on you and KG respectively ;-)<br /><br />Hope this helps too ;-)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13986558137819248654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8569664541236921445.post-72002593936293464842015-03-11T09:01:08.429-07:002015-03-11T09:01:08.429-07:00Patrick, it would be nice if you could pick up a b...Patrick, it would be nice if you could pick up a bit the arguments Gavin gave and relate to them in a reasonable manner. What do you think, is this possible?<br /><br />You first sentence doesn’t make sense. If NKT is not organising the protests, then how can you in a reasonable manner relate to the facts that when Kelsang Gyatso, the head of NKT, ordered to stop the protest in 1998, that they stopped. And when he decided to run the protests again in 2008, the protests started again, after Kelsang Gyatso wrote to his followers: "To stop this evil action, as the representative of the Western Shugden Society, I personally will organise demonstrations against the Dalai Lama directly. I requested Kelsang Pema and Kelsang Thubchen to do this job for me and they have accepted. Please help Pema and Thubchen with whatever they need. With much love and prayers, Geshe Kelsang Gyatso." <br /><br />Moreover, how can you explain that the registered offices of the campaigning groups (ISC, WSS) were established by NKT Resident Teachers, and all spokes persons are NKT teachers? <br /><br />And here we go. What you write next, is the common NKT propaganda, that has no basis in facts. How about starting from the basis of accepting facts as facts instead of blurring them and spreading bizarre conspiracy myths?<br /><br />Did you read what Gavin wrote, what the motivation of the Dalai Lama was? How can you explain that this contradicts your assertion that the Dalai Lama wanted to find a culprit "to hide his political failures"?<br /><br />Did you get aware of that the Dalai Lama didn't rely only on Nechung but also on reasoning, evidence and a thorough investigation, an investigation also you could do? The Dalai Lama relied on "basically three methodological devices or arguments: (1) historical evidence, (2) political reason, (3) spiritual insight." (google this quote and you find the respective article).<br /><br />The NKT used different bizarre arguments to slander the Dalai Lama as a liar. Initially they accused him of being a liar because he said that Shugden is not a Buddha but an malevolent spirit. <br /><br />Do you know what a lie really is? The determinative factor behind a lie is the intention to deceive. How can you correctly establish that the Dalai Lama has the intention to deceive when he says that Shugden is a spirit and not a Buddha and that Shugden practice (not "Shugden Buddhists" – what's that btw?) damages his health? Shugden kills and harms those who do what the Dalai Lama does (following a non sectarian approach in the Gelug school). Your claim has therefore no basis in reality, and the argument of the Dalai Lama still stands. <br /><br />Also, if one speaks something false believing it to be true, there is no lie as the intention to deceive is absent. <br /><br />It were the highest Kagyue masters, Tai Situ Rinpoche, Gyaltsab Rinpoche who sought the advise of HHDL. Since what is answering their question "splitting the Kagyu tradition"? It was the late Sharmapa who disagreed with the former mutually agreement of the four main disciples of the Karmapa and started to split away to find his own candidate. In that process he lied by wrongly claiming – after being asked what evidence he has for his recognition – that a high Sakya lama gave the hints. When this Sakya lama was asked by the CTA, he said that he never ever said what Shamarpa claimed.<br /><br />It is also not true that the Dalai Lama is not the guru of Kelsang Gyatso, Kelsang Gyatso received teachings and empowerments from him. There are witnesses for this. <br /><br />Hope this helps ;-)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13986558137819248654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8569664541236921445.post-61501430395918964182015-03-09T09:29:42.162-07:002015-03-09T09:29:42.162-07:00T.D. is a Tibetan living in India and is a Gelug B...T.D. is a Tibetan living in India and is a Gelug Buddhist by birth. She has felt first hand the effects of the Dalai Lama’s religious discrimination as her family of Gelug Buddhists is torn apart. DalaiLamaNews.com spoke to T.D. via Facebook.<br />“My family experienced a lot of problems in the village but never told us,” she said. “When my father died, I went down to my village. I was taken aback the whole settlement’s reaction. They denied to attend his funeral and even the offerings of the Puja performed for his peaceful soul.”<br />In 2003 and 2004, her mother, living alone in the village, faced many difficulties. She was told to declare in public that she was not a Shugden Buddhist if she wanted a peaceful life in the settlement. T.D. recounted what life was like for her mother after T.D.’s sister and brother-in-law left their village. “She went through all the difficulties. I remember my cousin’s brother asking my mother to sign the sheet declaring that we are not Shugden followers. My mother stood strong and denied to do so.”<br />“After few years, even my younger brother was not allowed to play in the village football team because he is presumed to be a child of Shugdenpa.”<br />In order to have a normal childhood and fit in with his peers, her brother secretly renounced his family’s religion.<br />‘Without our knowledge, he wrote a letter declaring he is not Shugdenpa and submitted it to the local Tibetan representative’s office,” T.D. said. “It is not that I would have ruled over his decision. But since we are staying in the land of secularism, I wonder why he needed to prove anybody of his beliefs.”<br />In T.D.’s family, the ban has resulted in more than religious discrimination and ostracism from members of the community; the ban has ripped her family apart from within.<br />“My family is divided into two,” she told us. “The ones who stood by the parents and were labelled Shugdenpa and anothers who went against. The village started to horrify my mother. She said she was even threatened to leave the village. She informed the local Indian police, but they could not help her. Kundeling Rinpoche helped her and now she is staying in Shar Gaden [Monastery] at Mundgod.”<br />“Here in Shillong, we are not allowed to enter the monastery which was build by all the Tibetans from the state including my father-in-law who was a Shugdenpa long ago,” she said.<br />“Now when the issue is raised, they lock the monastery every time we go there. So, we do the prayers outside the monastery. I even heard that few decided not sell the apparel to us.”<br />“What deity you follow was not in question in my family and in our neighbourhood till the issue was raised. Then, slowly as the politicians started to play their game with the issue, I could feel my father was getting affected by the issue. I blame the entire scenario on poor governance by Tibetan Exile Government, Indian Government who never tried to solve the issue and yes of course Dalai Lama. I wish he knew his one word could break the peace and unity in his community.”<br />According to T.D., there were no problems before the Dalai Lama began his campaign against Shugden Buddhists.<br />“There is a small Buddhist temple which has all the deities in our village. Everyone in locality used to go there to pray. All the oldies do Kora there in the temple every morning and evening. But when the issue was raised, people stopped going over there. That’s wrong I felt. Even a few local people planned to demolish the temple. Monks were called from the Bylakuppe Sera Pompara Monastery to safeguard the temple. It was a pathetic time. How drastic and pathetic the situation they created for us.”<br />“I hate the issue which broke the Tibetans into two parts, which broke the peace in our community and which was legally a crime,” she said.<br />T.D. feels positive about the ongoing campaign by the ISC.<br />“I’m glad at last somebody is asking about the solution.”Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16720970966202131047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8569664541236921445.post-31986542082021506342015-03-09T09:21:52.491-07:002015-03-09T09:21:52.491-07:00Hi. The DL gave up working for Tibet as a free and...Hi. The DL gave up working for Tibet as a free and independent country and instead wants it to be part of China. This has upset a lot of Tibetans, and so now the DL has said that Tibetans who pray to Dorje Shugden are damaging Tibet. Is this true, that Buddhist Monks praying in their monastery are damaging Tibet? Or is it true that he is trying to stop people criticizing his actions in giving up working for a free Tibet? He has also said that he relied on a spirit called Nechung for advice on Dorje Shugden so he may be taking bad advice from spirits and mediums.Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16720970966202131047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8569664541236921445.post-31850781776727745422015-03-09T09:14:38.511-07:002015-03-09T09:14:38.511-07:00Hi.
The demonstrations are organised by the Inter...Hi. <br />The demonstrations are organised by the International Shugden Community, not the NKT.<br />In one of their books they explain that they the Dalai Lama began his discrimination against Shugden Buddhists to hide his political failures in giving up working for Tibetan Independence. It was in 1996 when the DL first began to discriminate against Tibetans who pray to Dorje Shugden and he has said that they are damaging Tibet, so this seems to me like one possible reason for the DLs actions, rather than the Yellow Book, which came out in the 1970s.<br />The DL has also said that he began his campaign against Tibetans who are Shugden Buddhists after taking advice from a spirit medium called Nechung.<br />One argument for saying that he is lying is because the DL says that Shugden Buddhists are damaging his health (when he is quite old for a Tibetan) and Shugden Buddhists are damaging Tibet (when the DL gave up working for a free Tibet years ago and wants it to be part of China).<br />One argument for saying that he is false is that he was said he is a Marxist, and Marxism and Buddhism are completely different - you can't be a Buddhist Monk and a Marxist.<br />The DL has also been involved in splitting the Kagyu tradition by going against the wishes of the Shamarpa as well as splitting the Gelug tradition so it could be argued he isn't interested in unity in the Tibetan population.<br />The Dalai Lama isn't the Guru for Geshe Kelsang Gyatso. The DL has said that if you see any faults in your Guru they are actually faults in your own mind so it could be argued he isn't practicing his own teachings with his actions towards Dorje Shugden.<br />Hope this helps.<br />Cheers,<br />Patrick Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16720970966202131047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8569664541236921445.post-91499058943222970692015-03-02T18:08:39.767-08:002015-03-02T18:08:39.767-08:00I don't believe you are Tibetan, since you spe...I don't believe you are Tibetan, since you speak like a NKT spokesperson.<br /><br />Secondly, the issue has nothing to do with the Dalai Lama despite the attempts of the NKT to make it so.PerpetualMotionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04620422554600308484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8569664541236921445.post-87077331815418929282015-03-02T11:51:42.519-08:002015-03-02T11:51:42.519-08:00A well balanced and intelligently thought out piec...A well balanced and intelligently thought out piece by far, from Gavin la, on the subject. I read it with much optimism. <br /><br />Personally, i am not much of a religious person, but by virtue of my race, as a “Tibetan” (second generation), i do see myself directly affiliated to this problem- an affair that has left the Tibetan world, in a state of self-disgust … portrayal of a perfect irony as far as the teachings and values of Buddhism is concerned in its truest sense. The episodes that followed in both the lay and monastic institutes, after HH the Dalai Lama made the official statement to relinquish the practice of Shugdhen has come out to be, regretfully, grim and sordid. Furthermore, the Tibetan spirit of solidarity and its long struggle for independence has completely lost its soundness. Ensuing to this, talks are being organized and articles, degrading one another in the papers and social media has become a regular social occurrence. It can be also held true that in this engagement of diatribes 80% of them (both the parties involved) have no grasp of intelligently-backed knowledge to debate it out, but driven by their sheer allegiance to their spiritual leader, which in fact, under any context of argument poses a frightening reality . On the other hand, amidst such a shameful melee of instances our leaders at the seat of the Tibetan Administration in-exile goes on to display a very poor handling; in many instances making the matter even more wicked, resulting in further retributive action from the opposition, hence making this problem a perennial one. Protests spearheaded by the NKT with such spiteful slogans against HH the Dalai Lama only demonstrates vehemence of magnitude unprecedented in the Tibetan history – a sad and unimaginably disturbing to the minds of Tibetans like myself. It has come to me quite surprisingly with a mixture of misgivings as to why so many “InJi monks” are openly bent on the character assassination of HH The Dalai Lama, when actually you have so many learned Shugdhen high ranking lamas who, by far, comparatively speaking hasn’t come out that strongly(?) Is it suggestive to a reconciliatory gesture or more so a display of their bit of adoration to their once, the most revered spiritual head?<br />Is it then fair to beg the question, why then HH the Dalai Lama to this day has not made a conciliatory gesture or remarks, at least in the spirit of uniting the “Tibetans”. Because, if there is anyone in this realm of hope that can put an end to this problem is none, other than the HH Dalai Lama who is the embodiment of the lord of compassion. <br />Sincerely.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16386974659562503653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8569664541236921445.post-26370738359167820182015-03-01T07:18:53.679-08:002015-03-01T07:18:53.679-08:00Dear Gavin, thank you very much. This is really we...Dear Gavin, thank you very much. This is really well thought out, reasonable, intelligent and well put together. Well done! (Though I fear, the far majority of NKT followers live too much in their agit-prop bubble to be touched by it BUT it might reach some – hopefully.) I hope it gets a reasonable reply by at least one or some NKT followers. Best, TAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13986558137819248654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8569664541236921445.post-46839566907802355682015-02-27T16:36:48.709-08:002015-02-27T16:36:48.709-08:00Gavin Kilty's refers to Jamyang Khyentse Choky...Gavin Kilty's refers to Jamyang Khyentse Chokyi Lodro as a Nyingma. My point was that it was as a leading Sakya Lama that he opposed this practice.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16481857724255475657noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8569664541236921445.post-42064483021298757742015-02-27T08:27:16.002-08:002015-02-27T08:27:16.002-08:00Forgive me if I am wrong but I understood your poi...Forgive me if I am wrong but I understood your point to be that Jamyang Khyentse Chokyi Lodro opposed dogyal as he was essentially a Khatok educated Nyingma lama rather than a Sakya lama. But, as I showed, a number of other more 'purely' Sakya lamas (to use an NKTesque phrase) opposed dogyal with greater enthusiasm than Jamyang Khyentse. <br />Other well known and outspoken Sakya lamas that were very vocal in their opposition to the cult of dogyal include Dongthog Rinpoche Tenpe Gyaltsen. Opposition to dogyal was by no means a 'purely' Nyingma concern. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8569664541236921445.post-72615961937131234292015-02-27T06:55:44.309-08:002015-02-27T06:55:44.309-08:00Although Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo was Sakya, he was...Although Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo was Sakya, he was the main holder of the teachings of other lineages as well. When his incarnations were recognised, the main disciples from different traditions took responsibility for one each, which was how Khyentsé Chökyi Lodrö came to be educated at Katok, a Nyingma Monastery. The second head of the Nyingma in exile, HH Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche, was an incarnation of Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo. What they have in common is that all the incarnations I am aware of follow the Rimé, unbiased, tradition, practising and teaching other traditions.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16481857724255475657noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8569664541236921445.post-81134673578301233902015-02-27T06:02:41.270-08:002015-02-27T06:02:41.270-08:00But thanks for pointing out that Trijang Rinpoche ...But thanks for pointing out that Trijang Rinpoche emphatically detailed the violent and sectarian nature of Shugden.PerpetualMotionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04620422554600308484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8569664541236921445.post-49987906454808814412015-02-27T05:59:25.105-08:002015-02-27T05:59:25.105-08:00Should Christian monasteries be forced to accept V...Should Christian monasteries be forced to accept Vishnu worshipers?PerpetualMotionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04620422554600308484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8569664541236921445.post-1279620373022375472015-02-27T05:58:04.979-08:002015-02-27T05:58:04.979-08:00The Dalai Lama does not control the government of ...The Dalai Lama does not control the government of India. <br /><br />The Dalai Lama is not the prime minister of India.PerpetualMotionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04620422554600308484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8569664541236921445.post-56805713724215471812015-02-27T05:57:18.927-08:002015-02-27T05:57:18.927-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.PerpetualMotionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04620422554600308484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8569664541236921445.post-51747319316061974982015-02-27T05:54:36.146-08:002015-02-27T05:54:36.146-08:00Khyentsé Chökyi Lodrö, as all Khyentse tulkus, was...Khyentsé Chökyi Lodrö, as all Khyentse tulkus, was Sakya.PerpetualMotionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04620422554600308484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8569664541236921445.post-67968127193452806442015-02-27T05:54:25.995-08:002015-02-27T05:54:25.995-08:00There were three influential Sakya lamas that were...There were three influential Sakya lamas that were very opposed to Shugden being worshipped in their monasteries. These were Ngor Khangsar Ngawang Lodrö Shenpen Nyingpo (1876-1952), Ngor Ngawang Yonten Gyatso (1902-1963) and Jamyang Khyentse Chokyi Lodro (1893-1959). <br /><br />Ngor Ngawang Yonten Gyatso was probably most outspoken and active of the three, destroying as many dolgyal statues and ritual masks as he could get his hands on. You can read about his activities in David Jackson's "The 'Bhutan Abbot' of Ngor: Stubborn Idealist with a Grudge against Shugs-ldan" published in issue 14 of the Lungta journal of the Amnye Machen Institute.<br /><br />These are just a few of the lamas that opposed shugden worship over the centuries. There were many more. This shows the NKT claim that the Dalai Lama is a lone opponent to the cult of dolgyal is demonstrably false.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8569664541236921445.post-79364049249093118292015-02-27T05:52:56.539-08:002015-02-27T05:52:56.539-08:00Trijang Rinpoche himself said Shugden was a sectar...Trijang Rinpoche himself said Shugden was a sectarian protector which causes all sorts of misfortunes.<br /><br />Read "Music Delighting an Ocean of Protectors" in the original Tibetan.PerpetualMotionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04620422554600308484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8569664541236921445.post-53124567636425310472015-02-27T05:50:16.112-08:002015-02-27T05:50:16.112-08:00Kelsang Gyatso, as a minor monk, was NEVER a stude...Kelsang Gyatso, as a minor monk, was NEVER a student of Trijang Rinpoche.PerpetualMotionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04620422554600308484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8569664541236921445.post-20375033936980504612015-02-27T03:59:56.024-08:002015-02-27T03:59:56.024-08:00I think this open letter is one of the best and mo...I think this open letter is one of the best and most balanced contributions responding to the demonstrations that I have seen. It is particularly powerful because it is more balanced than some other criticisms of the demonstrators. <br /><br />There was a small point, I would like to make. Khyentsé Chökyi Lodrö was brought up Nyingma by Katok Situ, who was a Nyingma disciple of Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo and was entrusted with the education of one of the many tulkus of Khyentse Wangpo. The main tulku was nominally Sakya, as was Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo and was the one who took the seat at Dzongsar Monastery. However, this tulku died very young and Khyentsé Chökyi Lodrö was brought to Dzongsar to replace him until the incarnation was found and educated. In the event, for complicated reasons (See Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche 'The Lamp that Enlightens Narrow Minds') Jamyang Khyentse Chokyi Lodro remained at Dzongsar and is generally considered a Sakya. Although, he of course followed the Rimé (unbiased) tradition of Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo. <br /><br />The reason I think this is particularly significant is that this controversial practice was also done, although to a lesser extent than in the Geluk, in the Sakya where I understand it was seen as a minor protector. I have heard from oral teachings that Khyentsé Chökyi Lodrö took personal responsibility for ritually expelling it from Sakya Monasteries. I think this would have been quite a courageous thing to do and quite a step beyond simply writing a letter as a Nyingmapa. His courage in taking these steps is in line with the courage and leadership now being demonstrated by HH Dalai Lama. I completely agree with Gavin, what possible bad motivation could HH have for taking such a stand?<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16481857724255475657noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8569664541236921445.post-84807684255703630022015-02-27T03:59:11.266-08:002015-02-27T03:59:11.266-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16481857724255475657noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8569664541236921445.post-66929528923827331602015-02-27T03:57:14.301-08:002015-02-27T03:57:14.301-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16481857724255475657noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8569664541236921445.post-83092848250833472712015-02-27T02:39:23.508-08:002015-02-27T02:39:23.508-08:00Kelsang Gyatso's rejection of the Yellow Book ...Kelsang Gyatso's rejection of the Yellow Book is problematic as it ignores the fact that the source of the book was Trijang Rinpoche, Kelsang Gyatso's 'root lama'. Trijang Rinpoche's other book on the subject, “Music Delighting an Ocean of Oath-Bound Protectors” (dam can rgya mtsho dges pa'i rol mo), is in exactly the same vein as the Yellow Book and is no less blood thirsty, actually it is probably worse in that it also recounts dogyal being responsible for the deaths of a number of Bonpo lamas and an attack on a Nyingma monastery, as well as the standard killing of eclectic Gelugpas. Trijang Rinpoche's book, coming directly from the hand of Kelsang Gyatso's root lama is an excellent example of glorifying sectarian violence and illustrates well why the tide turned on the Dogyal cult. Of course, Kelsang can also reject the teaching of his root lama but I doubt he would do so in quite such strident terms.<br /><br />You suggest Trijang Rinpoche wrote this work in Tibet but I understand it was written in the late '60s, not long before the Yellow Book. The Yellow Book seems to be alluded to in the 'Music Delighting...' as a series of stories he couldn't include in his volume for fear of making it too long.<br /><br />Triang Rinpoche addresses the issue of Dogyal being either an enlightened deity or a spirit and he says it is Manjushri emanating as a worldly spirit for the special purpose of protecting the Gelug tradition by killing all the people he then lists. It really is a far better source for the reasons to avoid Dogyal than the partial translation of the Yellow Book. In his conclusion to the book Trijang Rinpoche reserves special opprobrium for people that might criticise the Dalai Lama out of admiration for Dogyal (and vice versa). He says such people will face unbearable suffering in the future. Tsem Tulku's website has the text available for download in a number of languages including English:<br />http://www.dorjeshugden.com/downloads/texts/download-music-delighting-the-ocean-of-protectors/<br /><br />Kelsang Gyatso's old claim that the Dalai Lama wants to integrate all four schools of Tibetan Buddhism, etc. is obvious nonsense given that the four schools are now probably more independent and autonomous but harmonious than ever before in Tibetan history. If the Dalai Lama really wants to mount a power grab he'd better hurry up about it. Kelsang's claim is little more than paranoid ramblings aimed at misleading his own naive western followers more than anyone else.<br /><br />ps. I removed then resubmitted posts to ensure they carried the correct links to Kelsang Gyatso's comments that seem to answer Gavin's questions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8569664541236921445.post-70719091345062082942015-02-27T02:36:47.059-08:002015-02-27T02:36:47.059-08:00Dear Gavin,
There are a few things that should per...Dear Gavin,<br />There are a few things that should perhaps be explained. You ask the NKT about the Zemey Tulku's so-called Yellow Book. In an 'interview' which Kelsang Gyatso staged with his student Kelsang Dekkyi back in 1996, Kelsang Gyatso explained that he didn't believe what the heart son of his root lama had written. About the book, he said:<br /><br />"I don’t know the real reason for his writing this book. Maybe this was his view and he was trying to prevent Gelugpa Lamas from engaging in Nyingma practices. There are two reasons why I don’t believe this. One is that Dorje Shugden never harms any sentient being because he is a Buddha, an enlightened being. He has compassion for all living beings without exception, even those who try to harm him.[...] I would like to suggest to everybody to forget The Yellow Book. The Yellow Book was not written by Buddha, so why should we believe this?"<br />https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nkt/iKhdY1B0_Xo/7JNiPEvfdk4J<br /><br />Regarding the reasons that Kelsang gives for the Dalai Lama's position on Shugden, he says:<br />"His main wish is to destroy the practice of Dorje Shugden and then to change the entire Gelug tradition. He wants to integrate all the four schools of Tibetan Buddhism into one so that the leaders of the other traditions will no longer have a role and he will become the only leader of Tibetan Buddhism. In this way he can easily control the spiritual life of all practitioners of Tibetan Buddhism. I know this is his wish; he has been working towards this for many years."<br />https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nkt/okHS1QBupSI/87RTKCs3duQJ<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com